In our third episode of “Unpacked by AFAR,” tips on how to be a better observer and how embracing our “outsider” status can help us travel better and be more empathetic.
In our new podcast, Unpacked by AFAR, we explore the world of ethical travel in a friendly, accessible – and dare we say – fun way. Every other Thursday, join us in answering your ethical puzzles on how to engage in wildlife tourism (“I know I shouldn’t ride an elephant, but can I swim with dolphins? “) to travel without harming the Earth (“What is zero waste travel and is it even possible?”). Here is the transcript of our July 14 episode.
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AISLYN GREENE, HOST: This is unpacked. I’m Aislyn Greene, Associate Editor here at AFAR, and today we’re delving into what might seem like a very benign topic: Is it really possible to travel like a local?
Now you might be wondering, if this is such a benign topic, why talk about it at all? This is an excellent question, which I have asked myself, even as I report this story. Here is the context. I have worked at AFAR for eight years. And for much of that time, I was imbued with this idea that we should try to travel as much as possible like a local. Sounds good, right? I had a general idea of what it meant to me and I pretty much believed it. I still do, to some extent.
But about a year into the pandemic, in that first wave of optimism about travel resuming, author Eric Weiner wrote an essay for AFAR that pierced a hole in that belief. Eric is the author of several books, including Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers. And Eric’s essay for us was about how we could make travel a force for good as we emerge from the pandemic. In this essay, he said this. (Before applauding my vocal range, yes it’s actually Eric reading):
ERIC WEINER: When we travel, we generally grow, not by looking inward, but by interacting with other people. Do we only see differences, languages, cuisines, customs, or do we also identify commonalities, or a shared humanity? It’s empathy. If we don’t sympathize at least a little with those we meet, we never really see them. To empathize with others does not mean to become them. I know it’s fashionable to brag about traveling like a local. No, you don’t. You travel like a stranger. It’s because you are one, and that’s OK. The empathetic traveler does not try to fit in. He knows that is impossible and that there are advantages to seeing places from an angle. One of the best books on American democracy was written by a Frenchman, Alexis de Tocqueville. It is not a coincidence. An observant outsider often sees what insiders do not see.
AISLYN: I was taken by this idea of the impossibility of really traveling like a local. It got me thinking: what do we really mean when we say we want to travel like a local? What are we aiming for and what are we losing if we don’t explore and maybe even challenge this idea? So in this episode, we’re going to do that. We will hear more from Eric and a few other writers and researchers. We’ll share tips on how to connect better in a new place, how to embrace our status as strangers, and basically how asking ourselves these big questions can make our travels more fulfilling and make us better guests in the world. But first, what exactly does this concept mean?
JINI REDDY: The phrase ‘travel like a local’, what does it mean? This may mean staying in locally owned accommodation, taking public transport, buying food from markets. I think this tends to suggest that you are traveling independently. I think backpackers can sometimes feel like they have a monopoly on authentic travel because they’re doing it on a low budget. But I don’t think that’s necessarily the way the locals do it. Some locals, for example, do not take public transport, they own cars, they live a rather bourgeois life. Some residents are impoverished; eating very basic foods is not a lifestyle choice. So I think “local” can be interpreted in many ways.
AISLYN: It’s Jini Reddy, a London-based author and journalist, whose most recent book, Wanderland, was shortlisted for a number of awards. Jini is extremely well traveled. She has visited over 60 countries and still seeks a deep connection with the places and people she meets. Jini went on to say that for many of us, when we say we want to travel like a local, the point is to be a more conscious traveler. And I think she’s right – there are good intentions behind that. Before we explore this further, we have to face the travel elephant in the room. It may even be what inspired the whole trip as a local thing: the dilemma of the tourist versus the traveler. Because, let’s face it, the word “tourist” can have negative connotations. Eric Weiner sees it as a kind of “inverted travel snobbery”.
ERIC: It’s really a reaction to being labeled as a tourist, isn’t it? No one wants to be called a tourist. Everyone considers themselves a traveler. The other person is the tourists, I am a traveller. It’s like those studies where the majority of people think they’re an above average driver, which is statistically impossible. Someone must be the below average traveler. Somebody has to be the tourist. It got me thinking why this desire to travel like a local and go through all this expense and hassle to travel and then pretend you were just born there and lived there all your life makes me wonder. seemed a bit silly.
AISLYN: Eric went on to say that, at least for American travelers, this impulse stems from the image of the quote-unquote ugly American abroad. You know, someone who travels away from home but wants things to feel like home? It’s quite a stereotype, and of course it’s not always true. But it makes sense that some travelers see this and want another way.
This is how the idea of traveling like a local came about: the antidote to the stereotypical tourist. And it’s not all bad! There are many benefits to exploring off the beaten path. We are more likely to support local businesses and local businesses. We can give back to communities in some way, or it can inspire us to choose DuoLingo and learn the language before we go. But ultimately, it is an impossible task.
ANU TARANATH: It would definitely be nice if we could travel like a local because then we could get rid of the anxiety of not being a local. [laughs] The thing is, no matter how much I want to travel like a local, I’m not a local. Wouldn’t it be better for us to just accept the fact that we are not locals and rather than wanting to travel like a local, why wouldn’t I travel like a better traveler? It seems more convincing to me.
AISLYN: This is Dr. Anu Taranath, a Seattle-based educator and author of the book Beyond Guilt Trips: Mindful Travel in an Unequal World. She is also one of the editors of the Unpacked column that accompanies this podcast. (We’ll share links in the show notes.) Dr. Anu is also a speaker and consultant and works extensively on issues of racial equity, gender, identity, and more. She went on to remind us that this goal is also impossible, because, of course, there is not just one type of local.
ANU: It’s quite nuanced because let’s also remember that there is a variety of inhabitants in any locality, and some are like tourists, attentive to the waste they produce, the footprint that they offer to the Earth, to the relationships they cultivate with people. There are also locals who are less interested in doing this and just trying to hoard and be greedy. [laughs] Lots of people all over the world. This idealization of the local perspective, which needs to be nuanced in some ways, right? Not all tourists are painted with the same brush. All the inhabitants are not painted with the same brush. Humans are complex, we are contradictory. We are wonderful. We are imperfect. We are all of these things. This put on a pedestal of the local, once again, good intention, well intentioned, I see why we do that. I’m not sure it accurately pulls together all the stories any locality could offer.
AISLYN: It’s important to ask: what do we mean by local, and is our local, their local? It is often a matter of perception. And perception has a lot to do with our own socio-economic backgrounds and the socio-economic backgrounds of the people we meet. Additionally, there are often racial and identity realities at play – not everyone is welcomed equally around the world. Jin explains.
JINI: I think the whole question of identity really plays into how we experience a place when we go abroad. I think it’s really fascinating. I think it depends on the specific dynamic between you and your upbringing, who you are and what you identify with, and the country or culture you are visiting. For example, you can’t blend in as easily if you’re surrounded by white people and you’re a person of color, and then you can feel hyper-visible. I think you’re more likely to be seen as a foreigner, and maybe that also impacts how other white travelers might respond to you. In some cultures, white skin is prized, and if you’re the brown-skinned tourist, you’re less interesting. As a result, there’s less curiosity about you, and people might not want to get to know you in quite the same way. In some countries you may have to face racism, even if it is not overt, you may feel the hostility. There are also advantages, because I have discovered that when I have had the opportunity to meet people from indigenous cultures, for example, people who still live in a traditional way or close to the land, there is often had more of a sense of attachment because there is no whiff of colonialism, however remote, around me.
AISLYN: Jini also said she found it true as a woman, that it was often easier to connect with other women. She shared a great story about a day at a beauty salon that opened the door to a side of the culture she probably wouldn’t have seen if she hadn’t been there.
JINI: I remember going to Iran once and having fantastic times, fascinating times, in an Iranian beauty salon. Because the women outside were wearing the hijab, but in the living room they were wearing mini skirts and tight little tops and lots of makeup. They gave me a makeover, which is amazing. The questions were the kind of questions you ask your girlfriends wherever you are in the world: “How are the men, where are you? Do you have a boyfriend? Do you have children? What is your life like? ” There are advantages. I just think it’s such a nuanced and complex thing, it’s very easy to paint this with a wide brush stroke, but you can’t really.
AISLYN: Dr. Anu agrees. During our conversation, I had shared my own journeys as a queer traveler navigating the world – sometimes I was more “out” than other times. Sometimes people assumed my spouse was male and if I felt uncomfortable I could let them continue to think that. But not everyone has that luxury.
ANU: If we have the idea that the typical American traveler is middle class, upper middle class, white, specially educated and resourceful, I arrive and look somewhat different from this standard of the American traveler. If the American traveler is supposed to be straight, you arrive and you may look or sound different from that American traveler. There are certain parts of ourselves that cannot be hidden. I can’t not be brunette where I go – I am all the time. Someone’s homosexuality may or may not be visible on their body in the same way and therefore which identities are choices we share with others and which identities are not choices. All this swirling around this conversation about who we are at home, who we are abroad? I wish I could share with you or anyone that you are all welcome everywhere. Of course, that’s not the world we live in. That’s not true at home for too many of us, and it’s not true for many of us when we travel.
That’s why I think, for me, not wanting to be a local, but just noticing what locals do really helps me think about issues of travel, power, hierarchy and identity and who we are and who we are not in different contexts. . I can’t make all the hierarchies disappear. I can be aware of how they unfold. I can try to protect myself as much as possible and I can try to get to know people even if I don’t like something they do or think or in a way that doesn’t quite align with my values . I am always in their space. How to do it well?
AISLYN: How can I do this well? That’s the real question, isn’t it? So let’s explore the ways. First, we have to accept the discomfort. Because the truth is, travel can sometimes be disorienting and unfamiliar, and that’s often the glory of it. Eric shared his perspective on new travel experiences. He likes, as he puts it, to “embrace the weirdness”. But weird in this case is not a judgement. It’s a tool for him to recognize that something is unfamiliar to him, without dismissing it – and to use that unease to spark curiosity. He shared a story about trying a new food for him in Iceland. For those of you who have been to Iceland, you might know what is coming.
ERIC: I went to a local market and someone at the hotel told me I had to try hákarl and I was like, “OK, I have to find a hákarl stand to get some. Well, hákarl is rotten shark meat that’s been simmered for a long time, rotted, and tastes pretty much exactly how you’d expect rotten shark meat. I had to be honest, it just tasted horrible to me. My approach in these situations is twofold. One is to embrace the strangeness. Like, this is weird, I eat rotten shark meat and I’m not going to pretend otherwise, but – and the but is the key to this formula is – but what do they get out of it? Where does it come from? Well, in this case, it turns out that it was an old tradition they had, it was feast or famine in Iceland. They have had long periods of time historically where there was no food. They fermented shark meat for long periods of time and it kept well enough to eat and they developed a taste for it.
AISLYN: Eric says you can apply this formula to many situations. In his mind, the problem arises when we skip that first step, the “this is unfamiliar to me” step and go straight to acceptance because we are trying to be nice. He’s not suggesting that we’re being rude or derogatory, but rather that we’re being honest: “Hey, that’s a bit unusual for me, can you tell me more about why you like him so much?” What’s the story? Use these moments of discomfort to spark curiosity.
ERIC: I find it more honest to go there. I’m American, I was born in America. I see the world through American eyes, but I’m willing to change my prescription on my glasses, to put it that way. Henry Miller once said that when it comes to travel, “the destination is never a place, but a new way of seeing things.” You could only have this transformation if you recognize that you saw things this other way in the first place.
AISLYN: That’s one of the reasons we travel, isn’t it? To help, as Eric says, to change the prescription of our glasses and to appreciate our differences. Dr. Anu elaborates.
ANU: Travel can help us better appreciate differences because it often sets us apart, whether we like it or not. When we are in our so-called regular lives, we are in a routine, we are in familiarity, we are often not always, but we are probably more often in comfort than in discomfort. I’m speaking in broad strokes, of course, not everyone’s stories exactly match what I’m sharing. When we travel, we knowingly put ourselves elsewhere. That knowingly putting oneself elsewhere opens up a certain curiosity, not always, but that’s the hope. That it can open us up to noticing more, slowing down more, getting out of our usual routine and thinking about something else, and being able to shift our minds to a different track.
AISLYN: It means embracing our outsider status. There are benefits to seeing a place with fresh eyes. Eric shares an example using a very famous French political scientist.
ERIC: Alexis de Tocqueville was the outsider observer par excellence, let’s call him. He was a Frenchman who came to America in the 19th century, mid-1800s. He was a traveler, but he’s a foreigner, he spoke English, but he wasn’t American, and he traveled all over the states. He went to upstate New York. I believe he went to the deep south, he went about as far as you can go in those days. He traveled like a local in that he went to town halls and did things like that. Tourism wasn’t quite the industry it is today back then, but it really immersed itself in American life. Then he wrote an amazing book called Democracy in America. To date, I think this is the best book on democracy in America. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the best book on American democracy was written by a non-American.
AISLYN: Why? Well, Eric says it’s like we’re all goldfish in individual tanks.
ERIC: You’re in Aislyn’s aquarium and I’m in Eric’s aquarium, but we’re both in a bigger aquarium called America, and we don’t even know it’s aquariums because it’s just that we know our own experiences, we only know our aquarium until we get out of it and jump into another aquarium. That’s what de Tocqueville did, he jumped into another fishbowl and could see it more clearly than the fish already there. I think you can be too close to a place and a culture and not be able to see it clearly. As an outsider, I would say an informed outsider like de Tocqueville and an open-minded, observant outsider like de Tocqueville, you can see things that other people don’t.
AISLYN: Eric went on to say that traveling can also help us see our hometown more clearly when we return. I think a lot of us have had this experience, where we come home and we can just see things with a new perspective.
One of my favorite instances took place at the Miami airport, after a two week trip to Cuba. During the trip, my wife and I carried toilet paper everywhere we went, as there was no guarantee that we would find it when we needed it. On the return flight there was a large group of American teenagers who had also spent several weeks on the island. At the airport, after landing in Miami, I found myself in the bathroom along with many of the teenage girls from our flight. They panic because of the abundance of toilet paper, contrary to what they experienced in Cuba. I remember thinking what a gift: to have this experience at such a young age, an experience that seemed to help them appreciate what they had at home. I shared this story with Eric. He laughed and told me what he always notices when he comes back from a trip.
ERIC: America’s abundance and then the proliferation of choices in the supermarket, breakfast cereals, for example, whether it’s good or bad, it always hits – it’s usually the only thing that hits me when I come back, that I walk into a supermarket and don’t even have to be fancy and you’re like, oh my God, we have so much stuff. So many choices at least cereals for breakfast but the thing, the funniest thing is, I’m home for a few weeks and I’m going back to the supermarket and I don’t see – it doesn’t seem to me strange more that there are 57 choices of breakfast cereals in my local supermarket, as if it were becoming normal. And I see my work as a travel writer as twofold, trying to make the strange familiar, and making the familiar strange.
AISLYN: I love that idea. It encourages us to keep our eyes open when we travel. And to keep them open as long as possible once you get home.
Dr. Anu has some great tips on how she likes to observe while traveling.
ANU: Rather than trying to travel like a local when I travel, I look at the locals. I watch the locals closely and attentively and with friendliness in my eyes. I do it less by judgment and more simply to understand how culture works, how gender works, how age and generation differences work, how people talk to each other, how people make gestures to each other. These are the things a local knows without anyone telling us. This is what we learn by being part of a culture, a community and a people. As a foreigner, these are precisely the things that I am curious to know more about, less to have some mastery of them after my two days, three days or two months in a place, but more to broaden my sense of how humans work in different parts of the world. Some of what I see I try to imitate and some of what I see I file in my head as knowledge, anthropological knowledge of how we work as humans.
AISLYN: She also has advice for those of us who want to build muscle around this. It starts with being honest about how distracted many of us are in our daily lives, and trying to slow down and just look more when we’re in a new place.
ANU: I think we go through our lives with such haste that sometimes we don’t even know what to notice and what not to notice. If you’re traveling and maybe even if you’re not traveling if you’re just going about your so-called normal life, take the time to notice who’s there? How are they dressed? Do they look like you? Are the languages spoken the ones you speak most often? What does the signage look like? How are people related to each other? What is the verbal? What is the non-verbal? These are incredible clues to understanding, not only the culture, but to understanding our similarities and our differences.
I would say what ties into that is not only outwardly noticing what’s going on in the community and in the people you look at and interact with, but also digging inside ourselves and to think, how does that make me feel? What awaits me? Am I overwhelmed with discomfort? Am I overcome by nervousness? Do I find myself backing down? Do I find myself hunched over? These are really critical self-reflection questions that help us connect with ourselves and our emotions in a really emotionally intelligent way.
AISLYN: Dr Anu says it can be helpful to be aware and mitigate our privilege as travellers, depending on where we are going. It doesn’t mean trying to be someone we’re not, as she explains.
ANU: I can never pretend not to be who I am and where I come from. I can, however, as I say in this article, compose the ways in which privilege displays on my body, and I can attempt to compose the ways in which friendliness or my receptiveness to connection might be present for me. If I’m going to be a guest in their community for two days, two months, I’d like to be a good guest.
What does the reduction of being from an extremely wealthy country look like, what does the reduction of having more than a lot of people in the world look like? That doesn’t mean trying to pretend it’s not there, but it does mean being sensitive to how those things come up and play out when we’re somewhere else. When I walk through a less resourceful community with my sneaky purse, or a hi-fi backpack, or very expensive designer shoes. I step in to say something. What I’m saying is I have, I have, I have. I would actually like to enter this community or any community less by saying I have and more by saying, “Hello, hello, hello.” These are really different messages, aren’t they?
AISLYN: For Dr Anu, toning down the privilege can be as simple as not carrying a fancy water bottle, or putting away the elaborate shoes or smartwatch and opting for a simpler version. In a way, it’s about putting aside our view of the world for a moment. How do we do that? Well, Jini has some ideas:
JINI: I try to find common ground with people if I talk to them, I try to listen more and talk less. I try to be sensitive to cultural mores, customs. I always try to smile, be friendly and look people in the eye. I think it’s really important, those little things. I think if you’re really interested in people, they’ll sense it.
I do not seek to impose my vision of the world. People may have beliefs very different from yours, and you’re not there to fight. You are there to learn, experience and testify. You walk away with all this information and then you can decide what to do with it.
AISLYN: For Jini, the goal is to be as open and non-judgmental as possible. Sometimes that means opening up on a more energetic level.
JINI: I always find that what works best is being gentle and going with good energy. Go with good energy and be open and gentle, and people really respond to that, I find anyway. [laughs] It’s different for different people, but that’s what works for me. I remember going to Colombia once and going to a museum and I was assigned a guide. I was just trying to get on his wavelength, I guess. Then she turned to me and said, “Oh, you’re a very sensitive person. I really liked that. I was really touched by that. That she recognized it, that I was trying to make a connection.
AISLYN: Do you remember what you were doing?
JINI: It’s just an energetic thing. I think I was right – that you can expand or you can empty yourself and open up a bit. I was just trying to open up a bit and bring my energy back to my heart center and connect as two people and not like, “I’m the travel reporter you take along and you have to be a certain way and I have to to be a certain way. Throwing that out and just, “We’re just two people and we’re going to make a connection, hopefully, and let’s do it that way.”
AISLYN: We’ve talked about different ways to open up to connection, but back to the value of opening up to places. In this case, the quotes are not tourist traps. Here is Eric again:
ERIC: To some extent, the tourist trap is in the mind of the viewer. You kind of lock yourself up in touristy places saying, “Because I’m going through this with hordes of other people, it can’t be authentic” or “Because I’m not the first person here, it’s a tourist trap” or “Because these people are trying to make a living selling small statues of the Eiffel Tower, it diminishes the beauty and grandeur of the Eiffel Tower”. I think that’s a mistake. I think you’re trapping yourself, creating your own tourist trap.
Keep in mind that tourist spots are like clichés. They are clichés because they are right, they are beautiful. All cliches were once someone’s original idea and expression, and all tourist traps were once someone’s [discoveries]. The first, I guess, non-Egyptian, in this case, to stumble upon the pyramids must have been like, “Holy shit, what the hell is that? It’s incredible. You’re not going to have exactly that experience, but you can still enjoy it.
AISLYN: Eric wants to be clear that he’s not saying we shouldn’t try to travel like the locals, that we should only go to tourist spots. But just as there is value in thinking outside the box, there is value in walking outside the box. Eric shared an example from a recent trip to Europe, where he found this value in a surprising way.
ERIC: I just came back from Paris and went to Versailles, the palace just outside of Paris. It is with the Louvre probably one of the biggest tourist attractions in the Paris region. I thought I was so smart that I booked my ticket online for 9:00, the first slot, because they have assigned slots. I thought I was going to beat the crowds, not even close. It was packed, and everyone is back and wants to see Versailles. I was depressed for a second. I’m just a tourist, I’m in Versailles, I’m with everyone, I take pictures of the grandeur here. Then I started looking at the observers, like looking at the tourists and observing them anthropologically, how the different groups behaved and how this group was different from that one and the way they chose to linger in the rooms of the palace, those they did not know.
AISLYN: And because of that change in attitude, Eric found a really cool moment.
ERIC: I was in the gift shop because there’s always a gift shop. There’s baroque music on the speaker system and the woman who works in the gift shop, she just starts dancing because it was like dancing music. Then I started dancing and she said in French, “C’est Versailles”, and it was only a very small moment, but I was in the Versailles gift shop, and if you are able to connect with a local person for just a moment in the Versailles gift shop, probably the busiest place in France, is pretty cool.
AISLYN: Yes, it’s a miracle.
ERIC: The thing is, you have to be open to – once you decide, “Oh, my God, this is terrible”, and I went through that phase, but I got past it. I think what you said earlier about embracing weirdness but also embracing tourism, you’re like—If you fight all the time saying, “I’m not a tourist, I don’t I’m not a tourist, I’m a traveler, I’m a traveler,” you wouldn’t have that experience of dancing with the woman who works in the gift shop at Versailles.
You must be prepared to make a fool of yourself, which I am prepared to do, much to the chagrin of my teenage daughter. You have to be prepared to say, “Look, yeah, to some extent, I’m a dumb American, so I’m just going to blunder here.” You do it with an open mind. You blunder, but your eyes are wide open. You are ready to be open to the possibility of life being another way – which I think is at the heart of the journey – the possibility of life being another way.
AISLYN: And that’s why we travel, isn’t it? Because we believe life can be different. Before we go, let’s take a look at what we explored.
Takeaway #1
The desire to travel like a local isn’t bad, but it’s important that we examine our intentions: why do we want this experience and what do we hope to accomplish? How can we do it in a way that has depth?
Takeaway #2
Socio-economic status, race, sexual orientation and many other factors influence our travels – there is no getting around it. If you’re traveling on what some would consider a more privileged passport, consider ways to lower your privilege if that makes sense. Maybe you’re not wearing the fancy water bottle or wearing the fancy shoes or watch. It can help open doors for connection.
Takeaway #3
Embrace the discomfort. To see also : How Queer Chefs Reclaim bottom line food. Be honest and respectful of what you’re going through and use it as a way to ask questions and probe.
Instead of trying to be a local, people watch your destination. How do people converse? What hand gestures do they use? What is the pace of daily life there? Also tune in to how it makes you feel. Are you uncomfortable or totally comfortable? Do you ever back up or bend over? If yes, why?
Takeaway #5
When you connect with people, put aside your own worldview and be curious. Look for places to connect. This may interest you : The Unified Arts showcase offers a journey beyond stereotypes. Be open and generous with your energy, as long as you feel safe.
Takeaway #6
Yes, think outside the box, if the community you are visiting can support tourism. Continue to support local businesses, restaurants and neighborhoods. But don’t overlook popular spots for travelers. If you really want to see the pyramids in Egypt or Versailles in Paris, don’t hesitate to go there. Read also : NYC Department of Health Monkeypox Vaccine Strategy and Priority for First Doses. Just because you share the experience with others doesn’t mean it’s inauthentic. Keep watching and observing. Look for the magical moments of connection in these bustling places.
Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Unpacked. Part local, part foreign to the other, I hope to see you there.
Ready for more unboxing? Visit us online at afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter. We are @afarmedia. If you enjoyed today’s exploration, we hope you’ll come back for more great stories. Subscribing makes it easy! You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. And please be sure to rate and review us. This helps other travelers find the show.
This was Unpacked, an AFAR Media and Boom Integrated production. Our podcast is produced by Aislyn Greene, Adrien Glover and Robin Lai. Post-production was done by John Marshall Media staff Jen Grossman and Clint Rhodes. Musical composition by Alan Karesha.
And remember: the world is complicated. Being an ethical traveler doesn’t have to be.
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